Elon Musk claimed that audits performed below the Division of Authorities Effectivity recognized what he described as “zombie funds” price between $100 billion to $200 billion a 12 months, marking the clearest accounting he has supplied of the short-lived initiative he briefly led early within the Donald Trump administration.
Musk’s feedback got here in a podcast interview launched Tuesday that rapidly went viral and touched on every little thing from immigration and synthetic intelligence to Mars colonization and metaphysics. The 53-minute episode, hosted by Katie Miller, a former Trump administration aide and spouse of White Home adviser Stephen Miller, was posted on X, the place it drew a couple of million views inside hours.
The dialogue moved by DOGE’s origins, Musk’s coverage views, and his reflections on the interval after leaving the put up in Could. Musk mentioned the Division of Authorities Effectivity, referred to as DOGE, originated in casual discussions and was constructed round web solutions.
“Doge was a made-up identify,” he mentioned, explaining that somebody on-line proposed “the Division of Authorities Effectivity, DOGE.” “So we simply type of made up a division.”
Musk mentioned DOGE managed to make progress regardless of resistance to authorities cuts.
“We had been considerably profitable. I imply, we stopped plenty of funding that actually simply made no sense,” he mentioned. “That was solely wasteful, the place for instance there was most likely $100 billion perhaps $200 billion {dollars}’ price of zombie funds per 12 months.”
The @elonmusk episode:
0:00 — Introduction
1:13 — How DOGE Started
2:22 — Has DOGE Been Profitable?
3:51 — Would Elon Do DOGE Once more?
5:40 — Importing Unlawful Immigrants
7:00 — Ideas on Ilhan Omar
7:56 — AI and Robots Changing Jobs
9:59 — Elon’s Largest Irrational Concern
10:17 —… pic.twitter.com/AaXsKQ5On0— The Katie Miller Podcast (@katiemillerpod) December 9, 2025
Pressed on whether or not he would repeat the expertise, Musk mentioned he wouldn’t. “I believe as an alternative of doing DOGE, I’d have principally labored on my firms,” he mentioned, arguing that efforts to halt improper funds triggered vital pushback. He mentioned makes an attempt to cease politically related funding streams made the work tough to maintain.
The interview additionally ventured into immigration coverage—a longtime precedence for the Millers. Musk criticized what he described as inadequate controls on unlawful immigration, arguing it burdens public sources and compounds labor-market pressures as automation accelerates. He linked the problem to broader financial nervousness, saying AI and robotics will displace many roles and referred to as for retraining packages and new types of social assist.
On know-how, Musk reiterated warnings about AI’s potential to upend employment whereas championing the necessity for U.S. management.
“AI and robotics will be capable to present all the products and providers that anybody might probably need,” he mentioned. He added that a lot of his predictions weren’t reflections of his preferences: “Individuals get confused about that. They suppose that what I predict will occur is what I wish to occur.” He mentioned AI had even formed his sleep patterns: “I’ve had AI nightmares many days in a row.”
He pointed to ongoing work at xAI in the direction of synthetic basic intelligence and humanoid robotics, including that current advances in machine studying supported his long-running curiosity in simulation idea.
“I’ve this idea about predicting the longer term: Essentially the most fascinating consequence is the most certainly,” he mentioned. “If simulation idea is correct, that is smart, as a result of if anybody is simulating a variety of futures, they’ll cease the simulation when it will get boring. That is what we do in our actuality.”
The aerospace manufacturing firm SpaceX additionally featured prominently, with Musk highlighting developments on the firm’s Starbase website in Texas and renewing his argument that human enlargement past Earth is important for long-term survival. He framed Mars colonization as each an engineering problem and a civilizational crucial. In April, Musk mentioned he goals to ship Tesla Optimus robots to Mars in 2026.
Musk additionally commented on the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, which he condemned. He mentioned the episode underscored rising safety issues round public appearances.
The dialog moved into private particulars, together with Musk describing a schedule of back-to-back conferences, including he slept six hours an evening. He additionally mentioned he tried to remove irrational fears.
“I strive to not have irrational fears. If I discover an irrational concern, I squelch it,” he mentioned. “I do not suppose concern is the thoughts killer,” he added, quoting the basic line from Frank Herbert’s Dune.
